Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V11_4/V11_407.TXT

Internet Message Format | 1991-07-08 | 17KB

Return-path: <[e-mail]>
X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson
Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/[e-mail] (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests)
          ID </afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/Mailbox/IaICweC00VcJ8R3k4r>;
          Wed, 16 May 90 02:11:55 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <waICw=[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
From: [e-mail]
To: [e-mail]
Date: Wed, 16 May 90 02:11:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #407

SPACE Digest                                     Volume 11 : Issue 407

Today's Topics:
                Re: Why no ETs
               Re: Naming Stars
              Re: The Vatican Connection
               Re: Sex in space
          Re: space news from April 2 AW&ST
             Re: Manned Mission To Venus
           Payload Status for 05/15/90 (Forwarded)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 90 15:47:28 EDT
From: John Roberts <[e-mail]>
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender
    and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement.
Subject: Re: Why no ETs


>...WOULD YOU have
>any reason whatsoever in the universe for establishing contact
>with those beings. You know, us. The ones who shoot, and stab, and
>burn, and torture, and maim, and detonate, and anihilate each other,
>and perform continual, increasingly destructive acts upon the planet
>itself...

No offense, but this isn't very imaginative. Every week or two, somebody
posts a speculation that there are aliens out there who know about us but
are shunning us because we sometimes violate some ethic of contemporary
Western popular culture. The presumption is that we are being judged on
whether we fight each other, pollute our planet, read Playboy magazine,
feel sorry for the cow when we eat a hamburger, etc. While I'm not necessarily
criticizing current ethics, it's a little naive to assume that these ethics
are all universal. Even among humans, for instance, there have been and still
are cultures that strongly condone war as being glorious and noble. To these
cultures, a nation that refuses to engage in wars of revenge or conquest
is regarded with contempt. As I argued in a posting a few weeks ago, there is
a pretty good chance that spacefaring civilizations we might encounter will
have at least a history of violence - how they might regard our own warfare
is uncertain. The point is that everyone who thinks we're being shunned
assumes that it's for the same reasons that we might shun a particular culture
on Earth. For all we know, there are aliens out there shunning us because we
persist in the disgusting habit of wearing clothes, or because we don't
worship the One True God Zxynklp. There isn't any way to tell at this point.

Some more possibilities to get the imagination working:
 - There aren't any aliens.
 - There are aliens, but they haven't found us yet.
 - They sent us a message, and we didn't reply, so they're miffed.
 - They're bigots, and don't want to deal with an inferior species such as us.
 - They're afraid that any contact might interfere with our broadcasts of 1950s
   science fiction movies, which they intercept and use to torture their
   political prisoners.
 - They landed, but we smell bad to them, so they left.
 - They're here right now, subtly influencing our governments and culture for
   good or evil purposes.
 - They know about us, but don't want to alert us until they have brought in
   the proper equipment to exterminate us without hurting the value of the
   real estate.
 - We're the aliens - placed on Earth millions of years ago.
 - We don't have anything they want to buy.
 - They're pretty sure we'd act like a bunch of bums, and want a handout of
   goods and technology.
 - Even we don't exist - it's all a computer simulation.
 - They're all a funloving, roisterous crowd, and they're afraid that we'd
   start moralizing and ruin the whole galaxy for them.
          John Roberts
          [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 90 23:06:09 GMT
From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!linc.cis.upenn.edu![e-mail]  (Robert Rubinoff)
Subject: Re: Naming Stars

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark C. Widzinski) writes:
>>  At least they get their names printed in a
>>book that probably gets a few thousand copies sold, and they can show their
>>copy around and impress their friends.
>I got my name printed in a book with *hundreds* of thousands of
>copies distributed.  I got a phone.

Yes, bought your book is only a soft-cover edition...




    Robert

------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Date: Tue, 15 May 90 22:18:49 EST
Subject: Re: The Vatican Connection
Source-Info:  From (or Sender) name not authenticated.


     In SPACE digest V11 #391 Derd Valpar ([e-mail]) writes:

-------------------------Quote Begins---------------------------------
As for the animal rights activists seeking to protect the rare red
squirrel, let those people offer up there homes as breeding areas
for the rodents, and let's get on with science.

The Roman Catholic Church, headed up by Pope John Paul II, is the
largest money-making, profit-making BUSINESS ORGANIZATION on Earth,
and acts only, repeat ONLY, out of vested self-interest.

Any thought that they might be seeking to expand the world's know-
ledge about anything is tantamount to insanity. With the current
expansion of humanity's abilities in the area of astronomy, and the
truths that MAY be revealed regarding the universe, and possible
life in it, the Vatican MUST acquire that knowledge firsthand, in
order to combat it with erudite-sounding church dogma, and thus
perpetuate the mass ignorance of the world's masses, the church's
mission since its inception.

To my mind, there is nothing more terrifying than that the Roman
Catholic Church will, through the power of its incalculable wealth,
control even the smallest part of what an instrument of scientific
research will be used for. I will join any organization, and con-
tribute time, money, and talent to it, that seeks to prevent the
intrusion of the Roman Catholic Church into any scientific project.

                                         Derd Valpar
                                  aka    Marlen
                                         AZM@NIHCU
---------------------------Quote Ends--------------------------------

     Scientific method involves making theories based upon facts.  Where
are your facts, Mr. Valpar?  Judging by your net-address it seems that
you are affiliated with the National Institute of Health, a branch of
the United States government - the same government that grants the
Church non-profit status.  As far as being the largest money-making
organization on Earth is concerned, it is true that the Church receives
a lot of voluntary contributions; however, I'd say that your employer
(the US government) probably receives much more in non-voluntary taxes.
Considering that the Church spends most of its money helping the poor,
hungry, and sick around the world it is not driven only by self-interest.
Mother Theresa in India earned a Nobel Prize for helping the poor and
sick there.  The order she founded has probably helped more people than
the NIH.

     If you feel that anyone who believes that the Church is trying to
advance knowledge is insane then you probably feel that you are the only
sane person in the world.  This is not likely, as shown by the gloom-and-
doom messages you have been posting in SPACE recently.  For someone who
has complained a lot you have never really mention a specific course of
_action_.  The Church is _doing_ something to advance knowledge -
building a telescope.  I'd even wager it will be used by nations that
cannot afford to build a telescope of their own.  The thought that the
instrument is part of a grandiose scheme to mislead the world is
absurd, and no one will believe it until you provide some shred of
evidence.  I really doubt that the Church is going to get anto the
cutting edge of astronomy by having a few optical scopes scattered
around the world.

     You don't have to worry about the Church contaminating science,
science has contaminated itself with unethical acts (nuclear weapons,
etc. - the stuff you keep talking about in your messages).  Scientific
organizations do not have to be the only way to truth.  I'm surprised
that you'd join an organization that would try to block the Church's
contribution to science - it seems to be the first personal course of
action you have discussed on the net.  These organizations already
exist - they are called totalitarian governments.  And they are quite
effective in blocking out all religions, not just Catholicism.

     It is quite obvious that Mr./Ms. Valpar has a personal ax to
grind against the Church.  I suggest he keep that ax out of SPACE.  I
apologize for wasting the bandwidth, but I have never been so outraged
by a comment on the net before.  I may not be a "good" Catholic but I
can detect gross exaggerations, even in light of the Church's past
transgressions.

                                 David R. Brierley
                    A Roman Catholic scientist (chemist and geologist).

------------------------------

Date: 16 May 90 02:40:38 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!warwick![e-mail]  (Keith R. Turner)
Subject: Re: Sex in space

Barry Schwartz ([e-mail]) writes
]In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
]    (Chris May) writes:
]>... a friend and I are interested in knowing whether anyone has
]>had sexual intercourse while in orbit...
]
]The latest figure I heard for "space shuttle sex" is that
]it has been done at least seven times.  Apparently it is a difficult
]process.  You need a third person to steady you.

Hang on, is this humour/rumour/documented or what? I'd love to read the
NASA mission records!
            |<eeff

K R Turner:                        'Eddys in the space-time continuum.'
([e-mail]);           "So I hear. And this is his sofa is it?"

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 90 16:00:05 GMT
From: attcan!utgpu!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: space news from April 2 AW&ST

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark Gabriele ) writes:
>>... would cut out an enormous amount of oxygen prebreathing
>>needed with the shuttle suits...
>
>I don't know what "prebreathing" refers to, or why it is necessary.  Could
>someone explain this?  Thanks in advance.

Current spacesuits use a pure-oxygen atmosphere at the lowest possible
pressure -- 2-3 psi -- because higher pressures just make the suits
too stiff.  Trouble is, if you rapidly drop an astronaut from 15 psi to
2, he's got a very good chance of getting "the bends", as nitrogen in
solution in his body comes out as bubbles.  The only way to prevent this
is to spend quite a while breathing pure oxygen (typically via a mask)
first, to get all the nitrogen out of your body.
--
Life is too short to spend    |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
debugging Intel parts. -Van J.| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 15 May 90 07:42:32 CDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Manned Mission To Venus

> clyde.concordia.ca!mcgill-vision!quiche!calvin![e-mail]  (Mark SOKOLOWSKI)

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Fraering Philip) writes:
> >About Mark Sokolowski's posting:
> >
> >Also, due to some interesting refractory effects, the horizon appears to curve
> >over your head; even when you are standing on a flat plain, it looks like
> >you are in a bowl.
> >
> This isn't true, as the photos from the Veneras have revealed. In fact, the
> view from the surface is much like on the Earth on an average cloudy day,
> except that everything seems yellow because of the filtering from the
> sulfuric acid clouds.

I believe you are correct that the visual distortions may not be
'true'.  It's my understanding that it's a real near thing, though,
which seems to indicate that in some places on Venus, given some
'weather' conditions, it might or might not happen.  I'd be
disinclined to bet one way or the other.

If you can survive on 'looks', then a manned mission to Venus may be
resonable.  However, that doesn't alleviate the pressure, heat, and
corrosion problems.

> In addition, a reprocessing of those pictures to reequilibrate the
> luminosity has shown that Venus' soil is the same as our own in terms
> of color (and composition).

I'm afraid you're going to have to explain to me just how you arrive
at the conclusion that Venerean soil is "the same as our own in
terms of composition" on the basis of some "reequilibrated" (i.e.,
artificially colored) photos.

In fact, I find it almost impossible to believe, since *soil* tends
to be a result of organic processes as much as geological ones.

> I don't see why Venus would be so bleak. After all it is brighter on its
> surface than in the cold darkness of the Oceans.

True, but how would you know what's outside anyway?  Even if you could
get there and survive to the surface, I can't imagine being able to do
so for any length of time in anything with a weak point like a window in
it.  And what does the heat/cold of outside matter, since you're not
going to be walking around in it anyway?

> Furthermore, artificial light, greenhouses with trees and vegetation
> would make life fairly acceptable there.

If you're going to live in a big can, why does it matter where the
can is?  Why put it the most difficult place possible?  Personally,
I'd rather live in a space settlement.  You could have everything
you list as being the advantages of living on a ball of dirt, plus
just think about being able to have zero-g at will.  And think about
the view of the STARS!

> I would even tell you that being there would be more enjoyable for me
> than in some space station lost between the Earth and Mars, millions
> of Km's from any object greater than a grapefruit...

Only if you enjoy being burned and corroded to death.  We can build
things that will keep air in and space out.  We can't build things
that will keep Venus out of the people-pipe.  It's really that
simple.

> I bet the rare materials recovered from our satellite will be used to
> make better weapons and extermination means to control our growing
> social and geopolitical problems.

You lose.  I can't imagine what we could get from the Moon for
weapons use that we don't already have.  The *big* thing often
mentioned for the moon (other than sheer mass for shielding - which
*could* be used for battle stations, but rock is hardly 'rare') is
Helium-3.  This is for *power* fusion.  Bomb fusion we've already
got.

I really do suggest you find out more about the things you're
suggesting.

==============================================================================
| Fred McCall  ([e-mail]) | "Insisting on perfect safety is for  |
| Advanced Systems Division           |  people who don't have the balls to  |
| Defense Systems & Electronics Group |  live in the real world."            |
| Texas Instruments, Inc.             |                     -- Mary Shafer   |
+-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+
|  I speak for me.  I don't speak for others, and they don't speak for me.   |
==============================================================================

------------------------------

Date: 15 May 90 16:14:49 GMT
From: trident.arc.nasa.gov![e-mail]  (Peter E. Yee)
Subject: Payload Status for 05/15/90 (Forwarded)


    Daily Status/KSC Payload Management and Operations 05-15-90.

    - STS-31R HST (at VPF) -

    Post launch GSE removal continues.


    - STS-35 ASTRO-1/BBXRT (at Pad-A) -

    BBXRT GSE/LPS measurement comparisons will be performed
    today.


    - STS-40 SLS-1 (at O&C) -

    A mission sequence test data review will occur today and
    MVAK training will continue.


    - STS-41 Ulysses (at ESA 60) -

    PAM-S spin balance operations will continue today at a 60.
    VPHD preps will continue today at the VPF.


    - STS-42 IML-1 (at O&C) -

    Module pyrell foam replacement, floor staging, and rack
    staging continue today.


    - STS-45 Atlas-1 (at O&C) -

    Cable installations will continue today.


    - STS-46 TSS-1 (at O&C) -

    EMP cables were removed third shift Tuesday.  HDRR cables
    will be removed third shift Wednesday morning.


    - STS-47 Spacelab-J (at O&C) -

    No work is scheduled for today.


    - STS-55 SL-D2 (at O&C) -

    Rack 12 staging will continue today.


    - HST M&R (at O&C) -

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V11 #407
*******************